Every shop needs managers, but managers alone will not grow a business. Al Oramas, President of Pro Auto Care in Denver, realized this while sitting in a session at ATI’s SuperConference in Jacksonville. As he put it, “I’ve been training managers forever. How much effort have I made in training leaders?” That question changed how he ran his company.
In episode 2 of Maximum Octane, host Kim Hickey talks with Al, the show’s very first guest, about his decision to turn his internal customers into leaders. He shares how he introduced the change, how his team reacted, and what it took for him personally to stop being the person who knows and solves everything.
What You Will Learn
- An aha moment, turning managers meeting into a leadership meeting
- How did Al’s internal customers react to his new approach to the business
- The importance of defining and understanding what success means for our team members
- How important it is to create a safe space where ideas can be expressed and discussed freely
Questions Asked in This Episode
- You wanted all of your internal customers to behave like leaders. Can you share a bit about how this came about?
- What are the differences between a manager and a leader?
- How are you learning to step aside and let everyone else start taking the lead and doing their jobs?
The Difference Between Managers and Leaders
The distinction Al draws is simple but powerful. Managers take responsibility for a situation and have people working for them. Leaders take charge, influence others, and set the example, which is why people follow them. A shop full of managers can keep the doors open. A shop full of leaders can grow without the owner standing in the middle of every decision.
For an independent repair shop, this shows up in daily moments. Does the shop foreman wait for the owner to decide on a comeback, or does he handle it within agreed guidelines? Does the service advisor escalate every price objection, or does she know how much room she has to make it right? ATI explores this further in The Leadership Triad and 4 Essential Skills for Auto Repair Shop Managers.
Neither role is better than the other, and every growing shop needs both. Managers keep the schedule moving, track parts, follow up on comebacks, and make sure processes are followed. Leaders shape how people think about their work, help them grow, and make the shop a place people want to stay. The challenge for most owners is that they promote people into management because they were great technicians or advisors, then expect leadership to appear on its own. It rarely does without training and support.
One way to spot the difference in your own shop is to watch what happens when the owner leaves for a few days. If everything stalls and decisions pile up, the shop has managers waiting for direction. If people step up, solve problems, and keep the team motivated, the shop has leaders. Building that second kind of team is what Al set out to do.
Turning a Managers Meeting Into a Leadership Meeting
Al’s “aha moment” led to a practical change: his managers meeting became a leadership meeting. That shift in name signaled a shift in expectations. Instead of reviewing tasks and putting out fires, the group started talking about direction, development, and how each person could influence the rest of the team.
If you want to try the same thing, consider changing the agenda before you change the title. Spend less time on yesterday’s problems and more time on questions like:
- Who on the team is ready for more responsibility?
- What decision did someone make this week that we should recognize?
- Where are people waiting on the owner when they should not have to?
ATI’s The Reason Your Shop Meetings Aren’t Working offers more ideas for running meetings that actually move a team forward.
Small symbolic changes like a meeting name can have a surprisingly large effect when they are backed up by real behavior. If the agenda still consists of the owner reading a list of problems and handing out assignments, the new name will not matter. But if the meeting begins to include discussions about developing people, sharing ownership of goals, and solving problems together, the team starts to see itself differently.
A simple leadership meeting format might include a quick review of key numbers, a round where each leader shares a win from their area, a discussion of one challenge the group solves together, and a short segment on personal or professional development, such as a chapter from a leadership book. Over time, that rhythm teaches people to think beyond their own tasks and see the whole business.
How the Team Reacted to a New Approach
Change at the top always creates questions on the floor. Al talks openly about how his internal customers responded when he started expecting leadership instead of compliance. Some people embraced it right away. Others needed time to believe that the owner really wanted their opinions and would let them act on their own judgment.
That reaction is normal. Teams that have been trained to wait for direction will keep waiting until they see that initiative is rewarded rather than second-guessed. Consistency from the owner is what builds that trust.
It is worth expecting a mix of excitement and skepticism whenever an owner announces a new way of working. Some employees have heard big announcements before that faded within a month. Others may worry that “leadership” is just a polite word for more work without more pay. Owners can ease that skepticism by being clear about what is changing, why it matters, and what support people will get. Following through consistently for several months is what turns skeptics into believers.
It is also normal for a few people to decide the new direction is not for them. That is not a failure. A clearer culture naturally attracts people who want to grow and can push away those who prefer to be told what to do. Owners should handle those transitions with respect while staying committed to the direction they chose.
Defining Success for Every Team Member
One of the most useful moments in this conversation comes when Al explains the importance of understanding what success means for each person on the team. A technician may define success as earning a certain income, mastering diagnostics, or simply getting home in time for dinner. An advisor may care more about growth into management. When leaders know those personal definitions, they can connect the shop’s goals to each person’s goals.
ATI’s How to Find What Motivates Your People to Produce and 12 Keys to Better One-on-One Meetings are helpful tools for starting those conversations.
Many shops make the mistake of assuming everyone is motivated by the same thing, usually money. Pay matters, but research on workplace motivation consistently shows that people also care about autonomy, mastery, purpose, recognition, and belonging. Daniel Pink’s popular book Drive summarizes much of this research and is a quick, useful read for any owner thinking about motivation.
Asking each person directly what success looks like to them is the simplest way to find out. Their answers can guide how you assign work, which training you offer, and how you recognize good performance. A technician who wants to become a master diagnostician might value advanced training more than a bonus. An advisor who wants to move into management might appreciate being asked to lead a meeting. When people see that the shop helps them reach their own goals, they invest more of themselves in the shop’s goals.
Creating a Safe Space for Ideas
Leadership cannot grow in a place where people are afraid to speak. Al stresses the need for a safe environment where ideas can be expressed and discussed freely, even when they challenge the way things have always been done. Research on high-performing teams supports this. Google’s well-known Project Aristotle study identified psychological safety as the most important factor in team effectiveness, which you can read about on Google’s re:Work site.
Psychological safety does not mean avoiding conflict or lowering standards. It means people can raise concerns, admit mistakes, and suggest ideas without fear of being embarrassed or punished. In a repair shop, that matters for quality as much as morale. A technician who is afraid to admit a mistake on a brake job may stay quiet, and that silence can put a customer at risk. A culture where people speak up early protects everyone.
Leaders build that safety through small, repeated behaviors: thanking people for raising problems, asking for input before making decisions, responding calmly when something goes wrong, and admitting their own mistakes openly. When the owner models those behaviors, the rest of the team follows.
Leaving the “Daddy Syndrome” Behind
Al describes his own transition from being a “dad” who knows and solves everything to a leader who encourages others to lead. For many owners, especially those who built the business from nothing, this is the hardest step. Solving problems feels productive, and being needed feels good. But every problem the owner solves is a problem someone else did not learn to handle.
Stepping aside does not mean disappearing. It means asking questions instead of giving answers, accepting that people will sometimes do things differently than you would, and measuring results rather than methods. Brittany Schindler builds on this idea in Treating Every Internal Customer as a Leader, and LeAnne Williamson covers trust and influence in How to Lead, Influence, and Trust Internal Customers.
One practical technique is to answer questions with questions. When an employee brings a problem, ask, “What do you think we should do?” or “What options have you considered?” At first, people may be uncomfortable, especially if they are used to the owner having every answer. Over time, they learn to come with solutions instead of just problems. That shift saves the owner hours every week and builds the confidence of everyone on the team.
It also helps to define decision rights clearly. Write down which decisions each leader can make on their own, which ones they should make and then inform you about, and which ones still require your approval. That clarity removes the guesswork that keeps people dependent and gives leaders room to grow into their roles.
Building a Leadership Development Plan
Turning internal customers into leaders works best when it is treated as a plan rather than a hope. A simple development plan for each potential leader can include a few elements:
- A clear role: what this person will lead, whether a team, a process, or a project.
- Learning: books, courses, or coaching that build leadership skills.
- Practice: real opportunities to lead, such as running a huddle or training a new hire.
- Feedback: regular conversations about what is going well and what to work on.
- Recognition: visible acknowledgment when they step up.
Leadership skills grow through repetition, and the shop floor provides daily opportunities to practice. Owners who invest a little time each week in developing their leaders get that time back many times over as the team takes on more responsibility.
Questions to Ask Your Leadership Team This Week
- What decisions are you still bringing to me that you could make on your own?
- What would success look like for you one year from now?
- What idea have you had for the shop that you have not shared yet?
ATI’s Peer Networking Groups give owners like Al a place to learn from other shop leaders who are working through the same transition.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is the difference between a manager and a leader in an auto repair shop?
A manager keeps the work moving: scheduling, tracking parts, following up on comebacks, and making sure processes are followed. A leader influences how people think about their work, sets the example, and helps others grow. A shop needs both. The difference shows up when the owner is away. If decisions stall until the owner returns, the shop has managers waiting for direction. If people solve problems and keep the team motivated on their own, the shop has leaders.
How do I turn my shop managers into leaders?
Treat it as a development process rather than a title change. Give each potential leader a clear area to own, such as a team, a process, or a project. Provide learning through books, courses, or coaching, and create real chances to practice, like running the morning huddle or training a new hire. Meet regularly to give feedback, and recognize people publicly when they step up. Most importantly, let them make decisions within agreed limits, even when they handle things differently than you would.
How do I stop being the person who solves every problem in my shop?
Begin answering questions with questions. When someone brings you a problem, ask what they think should be done and what options they have considered. Write down which decisions each leader can make alone, which they can make and then report, and which still need your approval. Expect people to keep coming to you for a while out of habit, and redirect them patiently each time. Over a few months, the interruptions drop and your team grows more confident.
What should a shop leadership meeting agenda include?
A useful leadership meeting spends less time reviewing yesterday’s problems and more time on direction and people. A simple format includes a quick look at key numbers, a round where each leader shares a win from their area, one challenge the group works through together, and a short development segment, such as discussing a chapter from a leadership book. Add a standing question about where people are waiting on the owner when they should not have to. Keep it consistent so the habit sticks.
Resources and Links From This Episode
Connect With the Guests
- Al: LinkedIn
